Matt Smith

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• Publication: Total Film
• Date: June 2019
• Author: James Mottram
• Page: 88
• Language: English

From Time Lords to Terminators, Matt Smith has mastered the world of screen sci-fi. But the British actor has also made a career from inhabiting real people, from The Crown's Prince Philip to his unsettling turn as cult leader Charles Manson in new movie Charlie Says. Total Film meets our nation's chameleon.

Wearing a white t-shirt and beige suit, Matt Smith is sitting in a plastic bubble chair in the main 'casino' of the Venice Film Festival, a huge imposing building where films are screened and press conferences held. In a side room, overlooking the Mediterranean, the 36-year-old Smith is contemplating taking on the role of cult leader Charles Manson for Mary Harron's compelling new film Charlie Says. "It's a funny one, isn't it?" he muses.

Arriving just ahead of Once Upon A Time In Hollywood, Quentin Tarantino's own tale set in the shadow of the Manson Family murders that terrified Los Angeles residents in 1969, Charlie Says sees Smith's bearded Manson through the eyes of three girls he duped into carrying out his violent orders. It's a bogeyman figure that's left Smith perplexed. "He was a bully," he says, "but then he could be quite charming if he wanted to be."

For an actor who rose to fame in Doctor Who, Smith has a pretty neat sideline in real-life characters. Before Manson, he was author Christopher Isherwood in 2011's Christopher And His Kind and, rather more famously, Prince Philip in the first two seasons of Netflix show The Crown. To come, photographer Robert Mapplethorpe, plus Observer journalist Martin Bright opposite Keira Knightley in Official Secrets.

It could have all been so different for Smith, who was born in Northampton. His grandfather played football for Notts County and, growing up, Smith played in several youth teams with a plan to turn pro. But a serious back injury put an end to his sporting ambitions, and he turned to acting after a drama teacher cast him in a production of Twelve Angry Men. Before too long, he joined the National Youth Theatre.

By 2006, he was making his TV screen debut in Philip Pullman adaptation The Ruby In The Smoke opposite Billie Piper, who he also then followed into the Tardis when he became the eleventh Time Lord for Doctor Who. If fans were initially skeptical, Smith made the role his own and never looked back, carving out a career that's blended cool indies (Lost River) with big-scale Hollywood (Terminator Genisys).

In person, he's thoughtful, open and good-humoured about the business of film. Right now he's shooting Morbius - based on the titular Marvel Comics character, an antagonist to Spider-Man. He's playing Loxias Crown, friend to scientist Michael Morbius (Jared Leto) and a fellow sufferer of a rare blood disease that, in the latter's case, has led him down a dark path towards vampirism.

Then there's the strange case of J.J. Abrams' Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker. Is he in it? Is he not? Variety reported that he had "a key role" in the film. But in an interview with the Los Angeles Times, Smith denied this. "As far as I can tell, I'm definitely not," he stated. This could, of course, simply be a smokescreen (should that be 'Snokescreen'?) before the upcoming December release. This might be the year Mr. Smith Goes To Hollywood...

Taking on Charles Manson... did it help that, as a non-American, there was some distance between you and the character?

That's a very good question. I was very nervous about it. I said, "I'm too tall. And I'm English!" I've played American people before, but the thing is, it's one of those... I've talked to a couple of people about it, and if you look back, and you had an opportunity to play Charles Manson, and you didn't - if it turns out good, if it turns out bad, it doesn't matter - you'd go, "Ah shit, I should've done that!" As a person to investigate, he's so unknowable and he's such a conundrum of things... yeah, yeah. I don't know is the honest answer.

Why was he so unknowable to you?

Of all the real people that I've played - and I've played quite a few: Philip, Mapplethorpe, Christopher Isherwood I've come away from them having a sense of who they are. But with Charles Manson I go, "No idea!" He's completely unknowable somehow. But what's interesting about this film... the last thing we need is a biopic about Manson. We know what happens, we know the story, blah blah blah. That's what drew me to the script originally. It is a film about women and his effect on them. And then I think I found him to be very vulnerable.

How do you prepare for a role like this?

With this, I wanted to go in, under, go quite deep, and not come up until I was out of it, and that's what I did. I locked myself away and stayed in character all day, at least in the voice. I had to learn the guitar, which I'd never done. That's quite helpful. I got there, went in, didn't come up for breath... I wore contact lenses, which I really liked - brown contact lenses. It was quite good, I got a beard and a wig. You get to add all these things to yourself which inevitably help with your performance.

Did you listen to The White Album a lot, the Beatles' record that supposedly influenced Manson?

Over and over and over again. Even that, even his dissection of that album, is utterly mad. I hadn't heard The White Album in so long - tracks like 'Julia'. The last track on it, 'Good Night', is an absolute masterpiece.

I've always been in love with the Beatles but it was a nice version of a job where you get to just... Beatles every day!

Were you afraid that you'd sympathise with Manson?

I don't mind that. I think it's quite good to sympathise with our worst characters, especially when you're playing them. That's one of the joys about being an actor. You get to play. We sympathise with Anthony Hopkins, don't we? Do you want him to get away in Hannibal? I do! I want him to get away and he's just eaten someone's brain! What's worse? Charles Manson didn't actually kill anybody. He certainly didn't eat anyone's brain. But for The Silence Of The Lambs and Hannibal, I go, "Go on, get away!" This is the thing. I don't know what he is and I offer it out to the rest of the world. I did something... this is what I feel on the day and this is what I think after all the information that I have gathered, and the rest... I can't judge it. I can't really judge him. Because then I do something which is

boring - then you go, "He's this" or, "He's that." Or, "He's a really bad guy and I want to make him that." Actually, they were having a great time up on a ranch, having loads of sex, taking loads of drugs, drinking loads, playing loads of music, listening to the Beatles... when you look at all the elements, you go, "God, if they'd have just got it right and not killed anyone..."

Do you think it was Manson's rejection as a musician by the industry that really kick-started everything?

That's what I learned about this film. It was the Beach Boys not going very well. There's a story in the start of one of his books, in one of the biographies... he goes to the Whisky A Go Go with the Beach Boys very early on, and he gets in there. And that was a bar that you couldn't just get in. You had to be a movie star or in a band. He gets in there, they go and sit at the top table and he goes down and he stands in the middle of the room... and he does this mad dance, starts dancing like an absolute freak, and the Beach Boys were like, "Who the fuck is that guy?" I think there was that spirit of... he wanted to fit in and belong and be recognised so much, particularly as a musician. When that came apart, he came apart and he thought, "Oh my God, all these people who thought I was this cool musician that I presented myself as are going to leave." And also we talk a lot nowadays about gender and women in film, and I think what I liked about this is that it isn't a film about Charles Manson, it's a film about three women. And their relationship. He's not a lead character in it.

Do you feel that Charles Manson was there to prey on the vulnerability of young people and manipulate them?

Absolutely. Look, he had a very difficult childhood. None of this is an excuse for his behaviour. I think he preyed on young vulnerable girls, teenagers, that needed a home. He was emotionally more intelligent than we give him credit for... emotionally, [he knew] how to push people's buttons. Especially young girls. Especially when he brought sex into the equation. I think on reflection of all that... what I learnt about him is that I think he was ultimately really, really vulnerable. And I think mentally he was probably quite vulnerable as well. I think had he not gone to prison then, he'd have gone to prison at some other time. There was a degree of mental illness there which was untreated. I don't know what it is but something in the wiring of his brain was slightly off.

Are you glad your version got in before Quentin Tarantino's new film?

Well, one needs to! You can't go toe-to-toe with Quentin - he's such a wonderful filmmaker. But there's more than one way to skin a cat. Who knows quite which way he'll tell it, but whichever way he does, it'll be good.

How curious are you to see Once Upon A Time In Hollywood?

Very curious! It's going to be amazing. I can't wait. Look... Leo, Brad Pitt, Quentin Tarantino... I just think it's going to be amazing. It's right up my alley, that. Look, just because I've played... I'm not one of those actors who is like, "Oh no, it's another person [Damon Herriman, in Tarantino's film, playing Manson]." I've done this now. It's gone. It's over forever. Also, Quentin is such an amazing filmmaker. I return to his films again and again and again. So any time there's a new one... that's one I'd go to the cinema for. There are

some filmmakers where you go, "I'm definitely watching that on the big screen." None "I'll [wait to] see it on Netflix."

Did you think about fandom and how it leads to crazy things when you were preparing for this? What is your relationship with fame?

I think Charles was obsessed with it, obsessed with it, and constantly refuted the idea... these guys, we don't need to be like them! We create our own rules and all this. Whereas deep down, he wanted to make an album, he wanted to be recognised. Like we all do. Don't believe any actor that says, "Oh no, I never imagine winning this or that." It's bullshit! They have, on some level, I'm sure. But these things don't drive us. I'm very lucky. I imagine you're alluding to the fans of Doctor Who. You're part of a big mad family with Doctor Who. They're just very nice really and very generous. But there are people I admire. I admire footballers. I understand what it is to be in awe of someone like that. So you try and be nice to people ultimately, I think.

Talking of Doctor Who, how did you feel when Jodie Whittaker was cast as the Doctor?

Brilliant bit of casting. I know her vaguely. She's a great actress and a really nice lady. I think Doctor Who thrives on those quite big... those things that feel creatively dangerous. I can only say this looking back, but my casting was met with slight raised eyebrows and derision. Who the hell is this guy? But actually you look back on it and the unknownness of those things... it needs quite big, broad creative ideas and that's when it really comes to life. It needs quite big stylistic directors. They're the best guys who take hold of it and give it flair, and a choice like this... it raises the level of intrigue. It's dangerous and it's new and it's pushing the form of the show. That's where it lives - it's got to shake it up. I think it's very interesting to have this female creature - or alien - placed into this position of intellectual authority.

You said there were raised eyebrows at your casting. What were the fans like to you when you first won the role?

Before I'd spoken a word, I'd walk down the street and people would shout things at me - "Don't break Doctor Who!" It was tough. It was a difficult time. But part of why that show works is the ownership those compelled to moan

You left Doctor Who in 2013 after three seasons. Was that a tough call to make?

I'm ever so grateful to Doctor Who. It changed my life and I wouldn't be here without it today, so it was hard to leave, but I had to. It was the right time.

Were you worried about what came next?

I think people are lying if they leave that show and they think that's not a consideration. Not that anyone does that. All the actors that go there... it's a very privileged bunch. I think David [Tennant]'s had a really interesting career. He's a charming man, a very nice man, David.

Do you think your post-Doctor Who choices were deliberately far removed from the show? You played Patrick Bateman on stage, for example, in a musical of American Psycho...

It wasn't a conscious thing. I did the musical because it fucking frightened me!

You also followed Doctor Who by working with Ryan Gosling on his directorial debut, Lost River...

I loved that film, and it got slammed. They [the critics] were so cruel to him.

You played a muscle-bound criminal named Bully. How did you get the role?

I had to audition for it. I was in New York and we hung out and did the audition. I read the script and really responded to that, and then we hung out for a few hours. I just really bought into his vision, his mentality and who he is.

How was it working with Gosling?

For me, he was a brilliant director and gave me real courage and trust, which is what you want from a director. But also guidance when you need it. What he did was set up a tone and an environment, where you could take risks and where you could do something bold or where you could go and talk to a character in the road and the camera would come with you, and some of that stuff made the movie, which was cool.

You also made two zombie movies - Patient Zero and Pride And Prejudice And Zombies. Are you a big horror nut?

I love zombie films. I love the zombie genre, such as 28 Days Later. Things like The Walking Dead do zombies well.

You briefly dipped into the Terminator universe with Terminator Genisys. Were you saddened that you never got to continue with the franchise?

To be honest, I got to do The Crown. Both wouldn't have worked. It was one or the other. And on reflection, I think Prince Philip is probably more interesting.

Did making The Crown change your opinions on the royal family?

I'm more affectionate to them because I feel I understand them more emotionally. I just noticed them more, I think.

What about Philip himself? Growing up, do you remember him as part of your childhood?

I'm very fond of Philip actually. I defend him to the hilt. Like a lot of people, there are slight misconceptions about Prince Philip. One of the things I remember quite strikingly was Spitting Image in the public consciousness. I remember it and I remember Philip and [Margaret] Thatcher clearly - "I used to be prime minister, don't you know!" But Philip... he's lived through great tragedy. He was essentially orphaned, sent away and lived with his uncle. He's had quite a tough early life.

How are you feeling about Season 3, now you'll be watching as a viewer? How do you think Olivia Colman will manage as the Queen?

I think she'll be brilliant. Credit actually to Nina Gold, who cast the show. She does Star Wars and Game Of Thrones. Often that part of the process is unrewarded. What I think she's done very cleverly... hopefully they're not imitations of these people. They're actors' interpretations, and it's the actors trying to capture the essence and the energy of someone.

You're next up in Mapplethorpe. Like taking on Manson, was it difficult to say no to playing a unique photographer like Robert Mapplethorpe?

Definitely. And it was another weird guy. And a difficult man. This is the thing. Manson was annoying. He was an annoying creature. And Mapplethorpe was difficult and selfish and I suppose in both instances, I don't know if I managed to pull it off, but I didn't want them to be too, I wanted them to seem... a bit like Prince Philip, like, when he's a dick, he's a dick! I wanted it to be that way. Yeah, this is actually how they are. They're not these myths created by the internet. Mapplethorpe was a fucking tricky bastard but he was amazing and I loved him. I fell in love with him! I can't say I fell in love with Manson in the same way, but I fucking enjoyed playing him!

What else compelled you to take on Mapplethorpe? Was it the filmmaker?

This was with a director [Ondi Timonerl who had only ever done documentaries. It's one of those things. Again, I thought, "I've got to do it," but I did hesitate because it's another real-life person.

Did you already know much about Mapplethorpe's photography? Some of it is quite extreme...

I didn't know his work that much, but when you get into that... who knew that pictures of penises were so compelling?! But they are, somehow they are! You can't help yourself. You go, "What is it about it?"

You're also playing a real-life person, Observer journalist Martin Bright, in Gavin Hood's upcoming political drama Official Secrets, which deals with whistleblower Katharine Gun. How did that come about?

Do you remember [BBC TV series) Party Animals? Martin was the political adviser on that. I was in Mexico on a beach and he texted me and said, "Would you do this thing?" I said, "What is it? Send it over my way and I will take a look." I just thought it was a very present and pertinent and interesting story, and they'd acquired such a great cast. I thought it was quite a good company to be a part of.

You obviously meet entertainment journalists through work, but they're probably a very different breed to a political reporter like Martin Bright...

I've had a rare and varied experience of journalists because you're caught on many different ends of a rod when you're an actor. I've been chased down paths by journalists. There are many good ones... beginning with Martin; he's like a detective. Some are dealing with possible jail and power of governments... this is Katharine Gun's story. But there is a story here about getting this [Gun's revelations of British-American tactics in the run-up to the Iraq War] to print in a newspaper, and there's something interesting in that. It's like All The President's Men.

Was it very different to playing your other real-life characters?

It was one of those... it's not like Prince Philip or Robert Mapplethorpe or Charles Manson where you can try and bottle a vague essence of someone. With this, it was about bottling my version of this journalist in this story. I tried to tell it as simply as possible. There's a no-frills nature to him. You can't add too much.

You've rarely taken the easy option in your career. Is this just how you are?

I want it to feel quite difficult. It's never an easy thing; I'm not coming home going, "I love it so much." It's always... it's a battle for me. And I want it often to feel... when it feels uncomfortable creatively... it's quite an odd thing to explain. In that battle, in the difficulty, in the not understanding and not knowing, and feeling slightly unnerved, often that's when you're at your best. The best season I did of Doctor Who was the first one when I felt the most unsure.

How do you figure out what to take?

I think you take each job on its own merits and each process. I'm really interested in the process - which is why a job like Ryan's [on Lost River] was so interesting. The process had a really interesting journey to it. I think what's nice about a film is you get a lot of time. When you watch a movie, you don't have to do much, comparatively to something that is genre-based like Doctor Who where there is so much story to get in. You've got a bit longer and you can spend a bit more time with the characters.

Do you have a particular process for getting into characters?

I use music all the time. It calms you down, focuses your mind... I don't know. I don't know what it does!

Is that something a lot of actors do?

I think it depends on the actor. Sometimes you can go against the grain and play the opposite moment. Yeah. It just depends on the moment and the mood of the actor and what you're trying to achieve, but there's no law. If you have to get angry, you don't have to listen to angry music - just something to stir you or move you. Who knows? We could talk about the whys and whats of it... but I just do it. It passes the time.

What's your main career ethos? Just keeping on moving forward?

That's the plan in some way. You just try and keep working and hope no-one figures you out!

CHARLIE SAYS IS OUT ON DVD AND DIGITAL HD ON 29 JULY. MAPPLETHORPE IS OUT ON DIGITAL HD ON 23 SEPTEMBER. OFFICIAL SECRETS IS EXPECTED TO OPEN LATER THIS YEAR.

Captions:

WHO'S THERE Starring in Doctor Who, with Karen Gillan as Amy Pond.

HELTER SKELTER As cult leader Charles Manson in Charlie Says, which opens in July.

STILL LIFE Playing the titular photographer in upcoming biopic Mapplethorpe.

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FIVE STAR TURNS

DOCTOR WHO 2010-2014

Smith shot to public attention as the 11th incarnation of the SF stalwart. "I feel very proud to be part of it," said Smith, when working on the 50th anniversary special.

CHRISTOPHER AND HIS KIND 2011 "I loved the idea of playing someone so extreme to me, that different kind of vocalisation and physical shape," says Smith of portraying novelist Christopher Isherwood in this acclaimed BBC TV film.

LOST RIVER 52014

Ryan Gosling's directorial debut was savaged when it premiered at Cannes, but it has since earned cultish reappraisal, not least for Smith's unsettling turn as vain gangster Bully: "Welcome to Bullytown!"

PKIDE AND PREJUDICE AND ZOMIBES 2016

The Seth Grahame-Smith adap that twisted the Jane Austen novel garnered more groans than one of its zombies, but Smith escaped with dignity as the best thing in it.

THE CROWN 2016-2017

Smith scored big on the small screen again in the first two seasons of Netflix's lavish royal drama. Opposite Claire Foy as Elizabeth II, Smith brought humanity (and some petulance) to his Prince Philip.

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MATT SMITH IN NUMBERS

44 - Number of episodes of Doctor Who that he has appeared in.

$441m - Box-office total of his highest-grossing film: Terminator Genisys.

6 - Number of times he has portrayed a real person on film or TV.

26 - His age when he was cast as the Doctor, making him the youngest actor to take the role.

1 - Emmy Award nomination for The Crown.

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MATT SMITH FAN CLUB

"He kinda reminded me of one of those actors from the '70s. They were just their own thing, like Jack Nicholson, Bruce Dern, or Hoffman, or De Niro. He's just his own thing, so I was really excited to work with him." Ryan Gosling

"I love Matt as an actor, and being in scenes with him is just a joy." Claire Foy

"I learned so much from Matt Smith in terms of inventiveness and being in the moment and seeing where it takes you." Karen Gillan

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• APA 6th ed.: Mottram, James (June 2019). Matt Smith. Total Film p. 88.
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• Wikipedia (this article): <ref>{{cite news| title=Matt Smith | url=http://cuttingsarchive.org/index.php/Matt_Smith | work=Total Film | pages=88 | date=June 2019 | via=Doctor Who Cuttings Archive | accessdate=25 May 2025 }}</ref>
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